SPOILER WARNING: This interview contains plot details, including some spoilers, for Celine Song’s “Materialists,” now in theaters.
“Celine Song Summer,” as decreed by Charli XCX at Coachella, officially commenced with the release of the Oscar-nominated filmmaker’s sophomore movie “Materialists.”
And Song is embracing her title as one of the queens of cinema during this hot weather season — especially given that her directorial debut, “Past Lives,” also hit theaters in June on its way to grossing $42.6 million at the box office and earning two Academy Award nominations, including one for best picture. “Materialists” got off to a hot start at the domestic box office, too, with an impressive $12 million debut.
“It’s a perfect time for romantic films,” Song tells Variety via Zoom early Friday morning, before the box office receipts started rolling in.
Summer’s great for falling in love, the filmmaker reasons, because then by Fall you’ve got someone to get cozy with as the temperature drops. “And then by the holidays, maybe you bring them home to your parents. That’s the fantasy,” Song concludes, grinning. “I also love the idea of ‘Materialists’ being released during peak wedding season.”
Weddings are central to the plot of “Materialists” which stars Dakota Johnson as Lucy, a successful matchmaker living in New York City, whose own love life gets quite tangled when she finds herself sandwiched between her starving actor ex-boyfriend John (Chris Evans) and a wealthy new beau, Harry (Pedro Pascal).
The romantic drama is informed by Song’s experience working as a matchmaker when she was an aspiring playwright — a six-month stint where she observed and absorbed a lot about how the modern dating market operates and the ways people view their prospective partners. Song also drew inspiration from the romance movies she loves. Leading up to the film’s release, A24 shared a list of the filmmaker’s references, which included five Jane Austen adaptations (“Pride and Prejudice,” “Sense and Sensibility,” “Mansfield Park,” “Gosford Park” and “Emma”).
“I’m like, ‘Put somebody in a corset, and I’ll watch it,’” Song quips. “I feel like I’ve seen every Victorian romance made, like, ever.”
Does she have a desire to make one? “’Materialists’ is a kind of Victorian romance, because it’s about the marriage market, the way that they always are,” Song says. But instead of meddlesome mamas making matches, the dating game now more closely resembles the stock market, with daters’ valuations charting up and down. “Now, it looks like it’s a ticker on this,” she explains, holding up her cell phone and laughing.
As for having her movie join the ranks of films that she considers classics, like the works of Nora Ephron, Nancy Meyers, James L. Brooks and Mike Leigh, Song adds: “I’m just interested in love as a universal theme, and I believe that human feelings and human connections are worthy of cinema. Of course, so much of that belief came from those movies and those stories that I’ve always been really obsessed with.”
Read on as Song breaks down “Materialists” — from casting her lead trio to planting Easter eggs of her previous work — and explains why she wanted to explore the “brutal” side of modern dating.
I feel like we’re gonna see a lot of blue dresses this wedding season after audiences see this movie.
I would love that. That dress is so beautiful. I remember seeing the dress on the rack and not really understanding it at all, because it’s like a wrap. So, I was kind of like, “I love the color, but what is the dress?” And my costume designer, Katina Danabassis, was like, “Let her put it on.” Dakota put it on, and I was like, “Oh, perfect!”
Dakota Johnson as Lucy (wearing an azure Proenza Schouler evening dress) in “Materialists.”
A24
Joe Wright’s “Atonement” was another one of your references, and that film has the iconic green dress…
The shine on that dress is so incredible. It’s not just the depths of that green, which is so beautiful, but it’s also the shine on it. The sheets in Harry’s apartment have the same — a deep beige shine. Those are just beautiful to shoot; they’re really photogenic, just like how people are photogenic.
What is that calculus of finding the perfect dress? Classic romance movies have certain ingredients, like the iconic dress or the perfect kiss, that make them stand out.
Katina and I work off character and story. What was real about putting together Lucy’s wardrobe is that we were really thinking about it as a wardrobe, like what’s in her closet. She is somebody who grew up working class, and then she started making some money, but her job requires her to fit into the higher-income, luxury world. So, our idea is that she’s gonna have a lot of basics that sell as great and professional, and, once in a while, have a really expensive piece that she saved up for.
I feel like that blue dress is probably her go to; I’m sure she’s worn it a few other times, because her life is not to be photographed in it. Her life is as a working person who’s in service of the bride, who’s in service of somebody who is the main character. We were really interested in a relatable wardrobe in that way, because it feels like something that’s true. I wanted somebody in the audience to point to something like, “Oh my God, I have that!” Dakota is fully wearing Aritizia.
Romance films can lean on the fantastical. When it comes to Harry’s wardrobe, of course, we’re going for fantastical; he was wearing Hermes, things that guys with money can have in their closet. In comparison to John, I don’t think we have a single branded thing that he wears. Carhartt is the most branded thing he has, so Katina was doing a lot of vintage shopping.
Similarly, how did you know Dakota Johnson, Chris Evans and Pedro Pascal were the right fit?
First of all, how funny Dakota is, which is really important for the character. I feel like Dakota has this shell to protect herself and approaches the world in a professional and beautiful way. If you push through that shell, inside, there’s a very deep soul. I love that she’s as delicate as an egg. I just fell in love with her heart, generally speaking, because she cares so much.
Then, when it came to Chris, I was really into his — I don’t know how to describe it, but I mean it in the coolest way — humbleness. He’s got a very delicate sense of self. He has a really lovely chip on his shoulder that’s beautiful to capture because it’s so interesting and so powerful. There’s a sweetness to him; like Dakota and I are always, like, tearing up because of how sweet he is as a person. He has a beautiful heart.
What excited me about Pedro is very similar to what excited me about Dakota; he’s also somebody who’s often in a position where he has to present as a little bit harder, because of the work he does. What I really love is how inside, just beyond it, is this very, very, very vulnerable person, who is not as certain as he seems. That duality really inspires me. I knew him before I cast him, and I didn’t think about him as Harry for a while. But I was talking to him at a party about how difficult and how mysterious love is; there was such depth to our conversation that I was like, “Hey, I want you to read my script.”
Pedro was the only one of your lead trio whom you knew before casting?
Yeah, with Dakota and Chris, we had lunch and talked about love and life. As soon as I met them, I walked away messaging A24 and my producers like, “Hey, I think Dakota is Lucy,” or “I think Chris is John.”
When you go on that date with an actor, what do you need to hear to know you’ll click?
I really respond to very serious actors. Like, if it’s not a serious part of their life — something they’re so passionate about and they’re obsessed with — I usually have a harder time connecting with them because I’m obsessed with filmmaking as a craft, and as my life. I’m kind of like, “Can you match my freak? Can you match my energy?” That was true for all three of them.
I think they just understood the story and the themes of it so deeply. There’s this line in the film: “I’m not merchandise. I’m a person.” I think all the actors really understood this. Anyone with a public-facing job understands this. What was so important to me in meeting them was not to see Chris as merchandise, but to see Chris as a person. Because if you see Chris as merchandise, then you won’t be as inspired by the idea of him as “John.” But if you meet him as a person, you’re like, “Oh, he’s a ‘John.’” It’s an alchemy of that. It’s me as a person, meeting another person.
As a matchmaker, what was the first question you’d ask your clients?
It was always what everybody’s looking for — because that’s the first question that any matchmaker is asked to ask. But I feel like the most important question was, “What makes you feel loved?” Like, “Tell me a scenario where you could feel that you were loved and held and that you were inspired to do the same.”
It’s going to be different for different people, right? For some, it’s watching Netflix and like, eating burgers in bed. For others, they’re at a beautiful cafe in Paris, drinking cappuccinos and talking about life. That reveals so much about who people are. I think that’s the more important question because that has to be aligned or compatible in some way. If one person wants a day trip to Paris and the other person wants to lie in bed watching Netflix, there’s always going to be a feeling that one of you has to give up something for the other person.
That’s just something I believe. I don’t know if that’s what matchmakers believe. I didn’t do it for very long, so I don’t think I have enough experience.
Dakota Johnson (Lucy) and Pedro Pascal (Harry) in “Materialists.”
Do romantic movies make good date movies?
“Good” is interesting, because I feel like one should — but it’s kind of a test. Isn’t it? It’s “good” in that it’s good for you to talk about the movie together afterwards to see where you’re aligned or not.
If you are fully in love, it’s really amazing to watch a romantic film with somebody. If you’re not sure if you’re in love, it might still be worth going, but then you might be a little scared, too. Honestly, that should reveal a lot. Like, you should be like, “Why am I scared to watch a romantic film with this person? Is it because I fear that it’s going to lead to a disagreement?” If you can’t watch movies together, I don’t think that you’re very compatible.
Speaking of date night, A24 created a standee for “Materialists” where you can quite literally measure your date’s height at the movie theater. It’s hilarious. Was that your concept?
[Laughs.] What’s been amazing about working with A24 is that they’ve been really leaning into everything that the movie is about beyond the romance and the love triangle. There are more real or confrontational aspects that I feel like a lesser studio would have tried to make disappear. But A24 knows the point of this film, the reason why I made the film and the reason why the movie is a must see is because it is going to be really frank about how modern dating feels.
It’s like the famous TikTok sound: [in a singsong tone] “I’m looking for a man in finance, trust fund, 6’ 5,” blue eyes.” It’s the way that the dating world already speaks. Everybody has already been commodifying and objectifying each other and ourselves. The way that the clients and Lucy talk in the film about these numbers — height, weight, income, age — it’s already a part of culture when it comes to the dating market. But the way it plays out, inevitably, is going to lead to dehumanization. And I think that is completely worth talking about in a romance film.
The movie also doesn’t shy away from the more predatory aspects of dating, as one of Lucy’s clients is sexually assaulted. Why did you include that storyline?
I read a statistic: one in three women experiences sexual assault in their lives. So, if I’m interested in talking about modern dating and how the commodification and objectification of each other will eventually lead to dehumanization, I didn’t have a choice but to include this. It would’ve felt really dishonest to me to say, “I want to talk about the pitfalls of dating,” and omit something that one in three women deal with.
It was always in the DNA of the story. Do you know the Lou Reed song, “Satellite of Love”? It goes “Monday and Tuesday, Wednesday through Thursday / With Harry, Mark, and John,” so I knew that those were going to be the names of the characters, the three men.
If you’re not comfortable with it, then you have not been paying attention, or you were in a lucky position of power that it’s not been something you think about when it comes to dating. People might be like, “Oh my God, it’s so extreme,” and I’m like, “It’s so the opposite of extreme.” It’s part of dating, and I would love that to change.
The assailant, Mark, is voiced by John Magaro, who starred in “Past Lives.” Why did you cast him?
I wanted it to be somebody who sounds as tender and as innocuous as possible for that role, because the thing I think is a really huge misconception is that we can tell when somebody is rapist. But the truth is that you can’t.
I always feel really safe when I hear John’s voice. He’s got the most melodic, beautiful voice, and he’s also a great actor. You need a great actor for that role because of the delicate balance that it has to strike.
You put another, happier, Easter egg in the movie, too. John is performing in your play “Tom & Eliza.”
I’m realizing I wrote that just before I started my job as a matchmaker. But the play is 50 minutes, and in that time, you go from these two people who have their first date until they die together. So, it really was, thematically, the correct play for [this movie], and I like featuring my plays in my movies. It’s so fun!
Would you ever translate that play into a feature film?
That play is just so theatrical. It’s only really meant for the theater. But I just do what I end up wanting to do when it comes to making things, so who knows!
This interview has been edited and condensed for length and clarity.
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